Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

Mercedes Sprinter 1 (Typ T1N, Baumuster W901-W905) & VW LT 2 - ab 1995 bis 2006
BONNET
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#16 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

Thank you , i also read that the 312D before 96 had no antistart system . Shouldn’t I try to find such an older ECU that would both solve my start issue + add 20 hp ? Do you think it would mount well on my 310 ? Thks
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#17 

Beitrag von Vanagaudi »

This is possible, but I got another idea:

The engine shut-off valve is part of the immobilizer, but also required to shut-off engine after regular switch-off by driver.
It is possible that ECU will sense solenoid of shut-off valve and in case it's not present to show driver an immobilizer fault by continued light-up of glow plug indicator.

In our thoughts we have to separate this functions. I assume there is a general problem within the circuit of the shut-off valve. I came to this idea because your engine stopped suddenly while driving on highway. Reason could be a loose contact of either the wire to connect shut-off valve with ECU, or the return line especially grounding cables from engine to frame and further to battery. You may check this by a temporary connected indicator bulb to shut-off valve.

As you're missing a click sound after heating up glow plugs, there could also be a problem with ECU power supply. At present I don't have any idea, which relay in drivers compartment may cause this click sound you're missing. Still it will take some time to find out.

For the time being you may disconnect your shut-off valve and instead connect it to ignition line as shown at T4-wiki in picture "T4 ohne WFS bzw. mit MSG". This will drive your shut-off valve by Kl.15 (Ignition). Immobilizer is out of control and probably will show an error. You may ignore this. But your engine should start an run until shut-off by ignition key.
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#18 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

Hello Helmut,

When it stopped on the motorway , i am quite sure that it was an electrical problem somewhere , temporary solved solved by touching the wires below the driver seat (MAybe the fuel pump relay) .. So there is definitely an electrical unstability here that i have to solve , maybe by replacing the whole wiring harness if i can buy a new one.

Now the new problem, that i probably created myself while trying to solve the first one above (i dismanteled all the fuse box and Temic + cable of antistart..) is that permanent pre heating light and no more "clic" happens when trying to start the engine , that is probably due to the antistart circuit ... i will mount the old solenoid of the injection pump because it is working well under 12V .
on one hand i am trying to get the diag software HHTWin to test this Sprinter , on the other hand i would be happy to definitely remove all the antistart system , probably by changing the ECU as i saw a company in Poland that seems to propose this (https://auto24parts.com/pt_PT/p/Central ... 363#option) with the option : UNLOCK , IMMO OFF. But i would like to be sure it will work before paying 600 €...

I am not sure to fully understand your previous proposal with the shut-off solenoid valve : Do you mean that i could directly create a 12V wire from battery to the pump with a switch inside the dashboard ? This way i could unlock the pump manually and start or stop the engine , whatever the TEMIC does ? Easy to try i guess..
sprinter75
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#19 

Beitrag von sprinter75 »

Guten Tag,

Welche nummer sind auf Temic Immobox und Bosch Mtorsteuergerät ?

MfG Sprinter75
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#20 

Beitrag von Vanagaudi »

Vanagaudi hat geschrieben: 29 Jun 2024 14:50As you're missing a click sound after heating up glow plugs, there could also be a problem with ECU power supply. At present I don't have any idea, which relay in drivers compartment may cause this click sound you're missing. Still it will take some time to find out.
Your engine is OM602.980 and according to VIN the engine control unit is a MSA25. To this configuration there is the relay K45 required which drives the glow plug indicator lamp. This relay K45 is driven by ECU Pin53 wire 1,0mm² GN/YE. ECU Pin53 switches to ground in case K45 should be activated. I don't have any idea about location of K45 but probably on central electric board. I'm sure that this relay K45 causes the click sound you heard when the glow plug indicator lamp had been switched off.

Other side of K45 coil is connected to K5 which switches power source for engine control circuits. K5 switches on main power source for ECU A20 (Pin55 and Pin37), Exhaust Gas Recirculation EGR Y44, diesel injection pump Y45 and K45. K5 is driven by ECU Pin26 wire 1,5mm² BR/BL. ECU Pin26 switches to ground in case K45 should be activated.
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#21 

Beitrag von Vanagaudi »

BONNET hat geschrieben: 29 Jun 2024 23:59When it stopped on the motorway , i am quite sure that it was an electrical problem somewhere , temporary solved solved by touching the wires below the driver seat (MAybe the fuel pump relay) .. So there is definitely an electrical unstability here that i have to solve , maybe by replacing the whole wiring harness if i can buy a new one.
As you car doesn't have any electrical fuel pump probably you touched K5. I don't know location, but this should be a heavy relay and probably is located below driver's seat. Instead of changing whole wiring harness you may clean or replace some of the cable shoes. Those flat 6mm connectors commonly used relays pins loose their tension on high age. You may replace those and while doing this, check if copper wire had been oxidized. If this had happened, you need to replace about 10cm of this wire. To do this there are repair wires available with cable shoes attached. This pig tails needs to be attached by soldering connectors to remaining cable harness.
Für (Folge-) Schäden aller Art übernehme ich keine Haftung. Alle einschlägigen (Sicherheits-) Vorschriften sind zu beachten. Im Zweifelsfalle grundsätzlich einen Fachmann fragen bzw. die Arbeiten von einer Fachfirma ausführen lassen.
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#22 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

Hello Sprinter team ,
I am back on my problem after holidays .. On one hand i tried to install my diag box VXdiag on my Thinkpad and bought a software to run it on Eurocarsoft web site and got their support to make all the installation ; They succeeded to install Xentry + DAS + HHT WIN. HHTWin seems the unique software to diag an old Sprinter of 2000. How ever it seems that there is an issue in the connection between the PC and the VXdiag. we will continue the troubleshooting with Eurocarsoft this week.

On the other hand i continued to try to understand why my 310 D does not start. I changed the 2 relays below the driver seat with brand new ones from Mercedes but with no success.
Then i tested the coil on the injection pump and it does not clic at all (this confirm your assumption Vanagaudi) .. Mercedes confirmed me that do not provide TEMIC box

So i took a wire directly connected to the battery + 12V and the to solenoid and it clicks well. Then i attempted to start with the wire and while adding some break cleaner in the intake ...it started very briefly but with a impressive noise so i think that it is not a good idea to use break cleaner in the intake.

Next step i will put back in place my old solenoid on the pump (Because it was working well with a 12V excitation) and make a new test. I need now to understand better what electronic device is piloting the shut-off solenoid valve..
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#23 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

To answer to Sprinter 75 question : Welche nummer sind auf Temic Immobox und Bosch Mtorsteuergerät ?
TEMIC 99M10 : 020 545 56 32
Barcode: A1U9A200015
125 KHZ

ECU : A027 545 1532
barcode:K01 ED 6009 MSA 25.5 5 zyl MD1/FZ7 75 KW
FD 99M11
HW 42.95
SW 30.98

I have the photos of these devices but i don't know how to attach it in the mail here.. copy paste does'nt work
sprinter75
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#24 

Beitrag von sprinter75 »

Hello, if you want I can test and repair these parts for you.

Just sent in by dhl

Best regards

Sprinter75
Brauchen Sie Hilfe bei Wegfahrsperre oder Schlüssel Probleme Mercedes Sprinter/VW Crafter (und auch veile andere MB Modelle wie w163,w638,w168,w202,w210 usw) , oder Start Error Probleme, starten Sie ein Thema und benachrichtige mich in Privat Nachricht.
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#25 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

HEllo
So i bought 2 brand new relays at Mercedes and changed them below the driver seat . I also put back in place my initial pump solenoid.. Again i feel with my hand that the 2 relays are working well when putting the ignition on and again it does not make the click noise in the dashboard nor start... While the pre heating yellow light remains lit up..
The blue and black wire that comes to the solenoid does not bring voltage to the coil on the pump..
I made the test to put a direct wire between battery + and the + of the solenoid mounted on the pump and it clicks well but against all expectations it does not allow to start...
The Mercedes dealer confirmed me that the TEMIC and the ECU cannot be changed because they are no more sold ...
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#26 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

Hello Sprinter75
Thank you for your proposal !
So you have the proper computer to test and /or to reprog the ECU and the TEMIC SKREEM , right ? Are they the only 2 features to consider please ? What about the encoded RFID ignition key ?
You can remove the anti start system for sure ?
Do you know if this is the TEMIC box that make the famous "clic" that i was hearing when it worked well and that seemed to trigger the yellow pre heating light to turn off ? this "clic" noise was clearly coming from the front , in the dashboard or maybe in the engine, but definitely not from the 2 relays below the driver seat..
I see also that the pump solenoid does not receive the 12V excitation from the Blue/Black wire ... From the documentation provided by Vanagaudi , i see that this wire is connected to ECU pin43:
Pin 43 Kl.EAB1 ; 1,5 blsw ws; Y45y3 (Abschaltventil) ==> I can't find where is the Y45y3 and i don't know what is that ?
Pin 53 Kl. ; 1,0 gnge ; K45 (Relais Vorglühkontrolle) Pin2 Kl.85 ==> I can't find where is the K45 relay
i see also that the Blue/black wire is also used on another pin :
Pin 26 Kl.HRL ; 1,5 brsw ; K5 (Relais Spannungsversorgung Motorsteuerung) Pin4 Kl.85

I also wonder if the issue could not come from the camshaft position sensor that i did not change so far .. Maybe another feature to review..

To which address should i send them and what would be your cost for that operation please ? In case the ECU and/or TEMIC is out of order , what should i do ? it is not sold by Mercedes..
To be honest i am very surprised that you can do this debug because Mercedes dealer told me that they don't even know how to do this themselves .. Are you a professional of these features ?
Also What software would you propose to diagnose this old vehicle please ? I am struggling since weeks to install XENTRY, DAS and HHTWINS on a laptop. it seems that HHTWINS is the only software for the old 310D but it needs a VM emulated in Windows XP and at the end i have a connectivity issue with my VXDIAG box ..
Anyway thank you very much for your proposal . I wait for your proposal
sprinter75
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#27 

Beitrag von sprinter75 »

Hello,

Yes I have tools to test these items, also need the key with tranponder to see if it's working well and also tranponder coil at ignition lock could be faulty, so recommend to sent in also.

temic does not make clicking noise normally

I'll test for you as a forum member for free, small repairs also.


Best regards Sprinter75
Brauchen Sie Hilfe bei Wegfahrsperre oder Schlüssel Probleme Mercedes Sprinter/VW Crafter (und auch veile andere MB Modelle wie w163,w638,w168,w202,w210 usw) , oder Start Error Probleme, starten Sie ein Thema und benachrichtige mich in Privat Nachricht.
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#28 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

Wonderful Sprinter 75 ! you are really helpful and selfless
Where should i send these features please ? So TEMIC + ECU + Key , right ?
Thank you very much
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#29 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

transponder coil at ignition lock is the piece in circle around the ignition from where the small black wire is going to the TEMIC , right ?
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Re: Sprinter 310 D startet nicht mehr - Vorheizanzeige schaltet sich nicht aus

#30 

Beitrag von BONNET »

 Themenstarter

Sprinter 75 , you can send me you address where to ship the components at my email : Obonnetfe1@gmail.com

To be noticed : I have ordered a brand new diagnostic box "SD connect C4 doip" for Mercedes on EurocarSoft web site.. I hope it will come soon and help me to point out what is the faulty component ... I will keep you informed .
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